Comments on: On Cultural Appropriation http://therioshamanism.com/2007/11/08/on-cultural-appropriation/ In the silence of the wild, we find the home we lost in the city. --John Muir Sat, 22 Nov 2008 22:45:41 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=MU hourly 1 By: Occult of Personality » Blog Archive » Podcast 34 - Therioshamanism with Lupa http://therioshamanism.com/2007/11/08/on-cultural-appropriation/#comment-105 Occult of Personality » Blog Archive » Podcast 34 - Therioshamanism with Lupa Sun, 02 Dec 2007 20:19:00 +0000 http://therioshamanism.com/2007/11/08/on-cultural-appropriation/#comment-105 [...] conversation also covers the interesting and controversial concepts of cultural appropriation, “plastic shamanism,” entheogens, as well as how someone who feels connected to these [...] [...] conversation also covers the interesting and controversial concepts of cultural appropriation, “plastic shamanism,” entheogens, as well as how someone who feels connected to these [...]

]]> By: therioshamanism http://therioshamanism.com/2007/11/08/on-cultural-appropriation/#comment-85 therioshamanism Sun, 25 Nov 2007 07:55:30 +0000 http://therioshamanism.com/2007/11/08/on-cultural-appropriation/#comment-85 Ross--that's a good way of seeing things, IMO. I want to help make the things that I have to share and will continue to relate to others things that are relevant to people in this society. I think of it as a shot of connection in the culture's arm, so to speak--we're so dis-connected as a culture. But there's no forcing it; people have to come at their own pace, just like your elephant above! I feel that if I can show the relevance, without losing a realistic perspective of what I'm doing, I have a better chance of getting things through to people without watering it down. Of course, that's the other end of my concerns--while I like the idea of making things palatable, I can't deny the parts that may not be as much fun. While some forms of neoshamanism seem to take the danger out of shamanising, I think that that risk is part of what makes it important and effective both. Not everything is done easily, and while one can take as many precautions as possible, there's always the chance of something going wrong. And people in this culture don't always want to hear that. But that's why it's important to treat every spirit as an individual--whether that spirit is currently encased in flesh or not. Even I sometimes have to remind myself that there are no one-size-fits-all answers, and that the exceptions to the rule are often more numerous than expected (to the point, sometimes, of practically negating the rule!) Bah, I'm rambling and it's late. I hope this made sense! Ross–that’s a good way of seeing things, IMO. I want to help make the things that I have to share and will continue to relate to others things that are relevant to people in this society. I think of it as a shot of connection in the culture’s arm, so to speak–we’re so dis-connected as a culture. But there’s no forcing it; people have to come at their own pace, just like your elephant above! I feel that if I can show the relevance, without losing a realistic perspective of what I’m doing, I have a better chance of getting things through to people without watering it down.

Of course, that’s the other end of my concerns–while I like the idea of making things palatable, I can’t deny the parts that may not be as much fun. While some forms of neoshamanism seem to take the danger out of shamanising, I think that that risk is part of what makes it important and effective both. Not everything is done easily, and while one can take as many precautions as possible, there’s always the chance of something going wrong. And people in this culture don’t always want to hear that.

But that’s why it’s important to treat every spirit as an individual–whether that spirit is currently encased in flesh or not. Even I sometimes have to remind myself that there are no one-size-fits-all answers, and that the exceptions to the rule are often more numerous than expected (to the point, sometimes, of practically negating the rule!)

Bah, I’m rambling and it’s late. I hope this made sense!

]]> By: Ross Bishop http://therioshamanism.com/2007/11/08/on-cultural-appropriation/#comment-84 Ross Bishop Sat, 24 Nov 2007 12:57:50 +0000 http://therioshamanism.com/2007/11/08/on-cultural-appropriation/#comment-84 I enjoyed what you had to say about new shamanism. I think that people forget that a shaman serves his culture, it is not the other way around. Twenty five years ago when I came out of the jungle, trained in classical shamanism, I had to figure out how to serve my people - who lived in a world of concrete and asphalt. They had no more connection the the jaguars, birds and monkeys I had lived with during my training than the man in the moon! I could have clung to the old ways and attracted all the wanna-bees who were disassociated from their own culture, but I wasn't interested in creating a Mayan sub-culture in the middle of America that wouldn't be any more genuine than the culture we already had. I felt that I that needed to adapt so that I could meet my people on their terms, not the other way around. and I am glad that I made that decision. I can now relate to my people where they are, and then invite them to go deeper spiritually without asking them to forsake the good parts of their values or accept an alien belief system. Don't misunderstand me, there is a lot here that I'd like to change. My native friends who criticize Western society have much heart and truth in their words, but I have always found that I could get a lot farther getting an elephant to move with peanuts and encouragement than through pushing and yelling. I enjoyed what you had to say about new shamanism. I think that people forget that a shaman serves his culture, it is not the other way around. Twenty five years ago when I came out of the jungle, trained in classical shamanism, I had to figure out how to serve my people - who lived in a world of concrete and asphalt. They had no more connection the the jaguars, birds and monkeys I had lived with during my training than the man in the moon!
I could have clung to the old ways and attracted all the wanna-bees who were disassociated from their own culture, but I wasn’t interested in creating a Mayan sub-culture in the middle of America that wouldn’t be any more genuine than the culture we already had.

I felt that I that needed to adapt so that I could meet my people on their terms, not the other way around. and I am glad that I made that decision. I can now relate to my people where they are, and then invite them to go deeper spiritually without asking them to forsake the good parts of their values or accept an alien belief system.

Don’t misunderstand me, there is a lot here that I’d like to change. My native friends who criticize Western society have much heart and truth in their words, but I have always found that I could get a lot farther getting an elephant to move with peanuts and encouragement than through pushing and yelling.

]]> By: therioshamanism http://therioshamanism.com/2007/11/08/on-cultural-appropriation/#comment-69 therioshamanism Fri, 09 Nov 2007 21:21:32 +0000 http://therioshamanism.com/2007/11/08/on-cultural-appropriation/#comment-69 To an extent, yes, especially with regards to neoshamanism. Native American, and to a lesser extent Asian, traditions are extolled. European practices often aren't seen as "exotic" enough (though nobody will admit it) and African tribal shamanism isn't even on the map for the most part. It's a bit different once you get into more scholarly circles of pagans, but among the New Agers in particular it's a matter of "being like the Indians". To an extent, yes, especially with regards to neoshamanism. Native American, and to a lesser extent Asian, traditions are extolled. European practices often aren’t seen as “exotic” enough (though nobody will admit it) and African tribal shamanism isn’t even on the map for the most part. It’s a bit different once you get into more scholarly circles of pagans, but among the New Agers in particular it’s a matter of “being like the Indians”.

]]> By: Soli http://therioshamanism.com/2007/11/08/on-cultural-appropriation/#comment-67 Soli Fri, 09 Nov 2007 16:49:21 +0000 http://therioshamanism.com/2007/11/08/on-cultural-appropriation/#comment-67 What amazes me is that people seem to think only "native Americans" have/had such concepts and don't even take a few minutes to learn that a large amount of pre-monotheistic cultures often had such ideas in their worldview. I don't pay much attention to how the general neopagan works anymore but is it still a case of only looking to what was done in the Americas for such topics? What amazes me is that people seem to think only “native Americans” have/had such concepts and don’t even take a few minutes to learn that a large amount of pre-monotheistic cultures often had such ideas in their worldview. I don’t pay much attention to how the general neopagan works anymore but is it still a case of only looking to what was done in the Americas for such topics?

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