Comments on: There Is No Goddess. There Is No God.

By: Jessica

Jessica — Thu, 21 Jul 2011 07:35:32 +0000

Lots of food for thought, thank you. When you say that in many animistic cultures, some being are thought of as deities, I think that maybe what you mean by the word deity is a bit different than what I was referring to in my post? Everything you say totally makes sense to me if I think of a deity as a “great …[insert animal, plant, etc here].. spirit” – in other words, the spirit of all individuals of a certain kind (like a clan spirit, the spirit of the whole “race”, rather than the spirit of an individual). But I guess I see those kinds of deities as fundamentally different from the anthropomorphic deities that govern various entities, actions, phenomena, areas of life, etc. I think the difference parallels/reflects the difference between the way civilized and nature-based cultures view (and relate to) the world.

By: Henrik

Henrik — Fri, 15 Jul 2011 17:20:49 +0000

I’m a Christian, but not a traditional Christian. For example, I’m under no illusion that the Bible is to be taken literally. I believe when Jesus said “do not throw pearls to the swine!” He specifically was indicating that we are to not give knowledge to the uninitiated lest they come back and crucify us for it. That is where Christ went wrong.
Thanks for a very well written and contemplative website!

By: aediculaantinoi

aediculaantinoi — Fri, 15 Jul 2011 00:52:24 +0000

In many animistic cultures, though, some beings are thought of as deities separate from, or over-and-above, actual things and places. Many of the most important kami of Shinto are like this, for example. There is a great deal of crossover between animistic and polytheistic ways of thought.

Also, most animist and polytheist systems do not require, nor have any acknowledgment of, “belief,” nor is its necessity at all implied. They recognize the spirit in all things simply because “it is there,” and it has nothing to do with believing or not believing. Insistent creedal monotheism, however, has made far too many people think that belief is the end-all, be-all of religion, when it only ever has been for a small number of creedal monotheistic religions (specifically, Christianity and Islam). What one believes in animist and polytheist religions is never as important as what one does (i.e. how one acts in the world and practices one’s spirituality), or what one experiences (and if one has direct experience of gods or spirits, then “belief” is no longer necessary because of that experience).

By: Jessica

Jessica — Tue, 12 Jul 2011 20:36:01 +0000

I apologize if I offend anyone, but I feel called to say something here. Thinking about “paganism as being about a God of the wild animals and war and phallus-shaped mushrooms, and a Goddess of domestic agriculture and family nurture and having a bun in the oven”, makes me realize that I really don’t consider a religion worshiping deities with those associations as a “nature-based religion”. In fact, I don’t think of theism in general as a nature-based religion. When I look at what I consider to be nature-based cultures (native hunting/gathering/horticultural cultures), I don’t see a theistic way of looking at the world, I see an animistic way of relating to spirit. To me, the difference lies in recognizing spirit in all things (everything as an individual being, whether animal, plant, mineral, spirit, ancestor, or natural phenomena), and sort of confining spirit to abstract deities that represent those beings (for example, the god of lightning).

Basically, I think you summed it up when you said: “Allow yourself to see the Divine as including all reproduction of all types, not having a specific form, but being manifest in everything, from stones to amoebas to helium to cacti.” That is animism – how nature-based cultures view the world. I define theism as viewing the Divine as having, as you say, a specific (human-like) form.

I think this anthropocentrism is exactly why I haven’t been able to really connect with paganism in its most common forms, despite being strongly drawn to various aspects for much of my life. I believe in spirits, and that spirit is in all things (all beings), but I believe that deities only exist as thought-forms that have been created by the belief of many humans over the centuries. I also consider deities to be a product of civilized cultures, which I consider to be disconnected from the earth in a very fundamental way (which explains why they have caused so much destruction, death, oppression, and suffering).

By: Naya Aerodiode

Naya Aerodiode — Sun, 10 Jul 2011 18:51:43 +0000

Thank you very, very much for this article. I’ve often told people who come to me looking for the Craft that if they want to find the gods, don’t look at statues, don’t read myths – go observe nature directly. I appreciate the way you pointed out that nature goes beyond gender duality in the many ways the many species on earth reproduce (and let’s not be geocentric here either – who knows how the alien beings on the multitudes of worlds beyond – also all a part of nature – reproduce.)

By: therioshamanism

therioshamanism — Sat, 09 Jul 2011 17:23:47 +0000

Which is why I say “generally”, such as in “We are most familiar with sexually dimorphic species, those that generally develop male or female reproductive structures”.

By: Sunshine

Sunshine — Sat, 09 Jul 2011 11:53:13 +0000

Ah. Now I a possible reason why the Abrahamic religions forbid images of their deity. Don’t want the people to think about God in terms of sex, and having God as a hermaphrodite or a snake? Oh noes!

By: Leikkona

Leikkona — Sat, 09 Jul 2011 08:44:47 +0000

As a pansexual, I find it painful too. =/ I never could embrace this worldview because it was to much hetero-centred. It was like it was saying me either “you have masculine energy if you like girls, you are like a man” (I’m female, and if I’m not the kind of “yeah feminity” and if I am interested in “male” human energy, pattern and archetype, I’m not a man. I’m a human being first, gosh !) or “nop. You’re not in the good schema, sorry for you~.”

By: Francesca De Grandis

Francesca De Grandis — Sat, 09 Jul 2011 05:29:09 +0000

Pps if the above items seem contradictory, yay!

By: Francesca De Grandis

Francesca De Grandis — Sat, 09 Jul 2011 05:25:30 +0000

Lupa, I luv (and have lived for many years) this article. I am always so glad to see yr writing, b/c we hav a lot in common, so u help me feel less alone. Here is why u r preaching to the choir, in case it provides u some support:

1) I am partially an animist 2) I worship trees 3) I think god is an herb 4) I see Gaia as way more than just mom but as a complex system that, spiritual speaking, weaves around me and that I intentionally weave with (for one thing, I create and teach rituals that do it) 5) I created a system of nature based divination (eg, there is a lesson on it in my book “Be a Teen Goddess,” if anyone here happens to own a copy, yes, I am rambling a bit, but it is in keeping with my next item) 6) One way I see the Divine is as a huge weave of stone, and plastic, and jokes, and bears, and barbie dolls, and blogs and buses and bugs and … (which I know u already know about me, b/c u have my manuscript right now) whew, I’ll stop the list there, but I cld go on, b/c i am so there with you. I luv yr mind. Thanks for being you. Now if I cld only worship these mosquitos who r biting me constantly b/c I live by a creek! Oh, one just flew at my eye twice!!! My whole body itches from bites. Oh Most Holy Mosquito God, please chill! Ps, yes I am trying to b funny, but I also am honestly describing 100% what is going on: this really is happening with mosquitos, and I am actually making a prayer that that god chill. I am red all over from its bites. Argh.